AMA Recap — DeBio. Network.
The session of AMA ( Ask Me Anything ) with DeBio.Network was conducted on 24th August 2021 at 5:30 PM IST (12 PM UTC) and lasted for 1:30 hours.
ADMIN ROUND
Jonty|Host
Please tell us about yourself and the team working on DeBio Network?
Pandu|CEO
My name is Pandu Sastrowardoyo — follow me on Twitter as @decentricity — and I cofounded a ton of companies in the Blockchain and IT space in the ASIAN region.
I actually started in the Enterprise space. I have around 12 years of IT experience. i used to work for IBM for 6 years, my last role there was Territory General Manager, I also reported to the IBM worldwide team and once handled the Asia Pacific. I also used to handle Hyperledger Fabric — one of the first enterprise-grade blockchains. I handled hyperledger fabric as part of my responsibilities at IBM Lab Services
I decided to leave IBM back in 2017 since I disagreed with some of the philosophies of their blockchain products
particularly, I didn’t like the way their blockchain was treated as a one size fits all. I believe the future needs to have blockchain agnosticity, and that the future is definitely multi-chain. “Internet of Blockchains”. For real.
Anyway, after leaving IBM, I became a co-founder of multiple blockchain companies and orgs, including Blockchain Zoo, Blocksphere (both listed in Gartner), the leading blockchain association in Indonesia, and several other companies as well.
Regarding the DeBio.network team:
My team includes Ibnu Gamal Al Hadid — our Chief Science Officer — and 6 developers and 7 biomedical professionals as well.
We are also helped by the Blocksphere team, who are our technology partners in implementing DeBio.
Blocksphere has been in the Blockchain space for 4 years and has done several projects in the space, from government projects, crowdfunding projects, even banking projects. From carbon credit tracking, to cross border transfers, to supply chain, and distributed identity. They did the blockchain carbon credit tracking thing in 2018, so that was super early.
Our advisors include 7 doctors — PhD’s and medical doctors. One leads cancer research for our largest science and technology university. Another is the CIO of the largest government-owned hospital. We have three researchers in biochemistry, genoics, and molecular biology. We have a doctor focusing on bioethics.
We also have a hybrid: A medical doctor who is also a Substrate developer, and part of the Polkadot Ambassador program.
Our advisors are visible on our website: https://www.debio.network/team
Jonty|Host
What DeBio Network project is about? How it works, Give a detailed
introduction.
Pandu|CEO
okay, I will start with the basic idea of it and how we started to come up with the idea
We started with two questions:
- what would happen if bioinformatics technology encounters the same privacy problems as #BigTech?
- why can’t people profit from their own genomes and medical data?
the answer to the first question is, a ton of problems that have already manifested:
- Insurance companies are already doing research on adjusting premiums based on your “future illness” based on your genome analysis.
- Data is already leaking and hacked, and these are KYC linked data that can be misused by criminals and miscreants the answer to the second question is:
because the large bioinformatics and medical analysis companies own this set of data. And they monetize without flowing back to the users, in most cases
Companies such as 23andme and ancestry.org, governments, and biomedical labs own your KYC and medical data more and more; centralized entities gain more and more control and create more risk: Singapore’s electronic medical records, for example, got hacked in 2018 and even their prime minister’s data was taken. At the same time, Computer-Assisted Drug Design turns this data into large sums of money, and expected total of 18 billion dollars by 2025, which does not flow back to the genetic data owners, to you.
THIS IS INSANE.
this is not just a conspiracy theory — let me give you a few provable points:
23andme is 33% owned by GlaxoSmithKline, for example, and even mainstream media such as TIME has raised it as an issue: https://time.com/5349896/23andme-glaxo-smith-kline/
In a (now redacted) PricewaterhouseCoopers report, 47% of Genetic Testing Consumers are very concerned about their privacy → https://web.archive.org/web/20201218083157/https://www.pwc.com/us/en/services/consulting/library/consumer-intelligence-series/cybersecurity-protect-me.html
so what we are trying to do is to ensure users can:
- get genetic and biomedical services, at home, *anonymously*
- monetize that set of data once that data is used for medical research
To achieve this, we needed to create:
- A services marketplace for genetic and biomedical testing- A *data* marketplace for monetization of the above data.
-Data staking, through a privacy computing system, that flows value directly to the users
and that’s what we created →DeBio is an Anonymous
-first Genetic and Biomedical Services & Data Marketplace.
it’s an end-to-end platform for the entire bio ecosystem.
It’s like DeFi — for your genes.
Natz|Host
Sounds interesting, here you mean to say you are basically storing patient data in the blockchain and also giving them treatment ??? and how will you cover those?
Pandu|CEO
Not really treatment we store the data patient data in the form of EMR, genomic data in the form of VCF files, and biomedical reports
we have a concept called “second opinion marketplace”
and this is for the post-launch phase. so if you have an issue with your health and you wish to get a second opinion from a certified doctor, you can put your anonymized data on this marketplace and place a bounty
of doctors who are certified to be doctors via the Kilt protocol can go ahead and give their diagnosis. these diagnoses can be selected from and receive user bounties. this is not treatment, though
because we are using a way where the doctors are also anonymous to the users, but you can see their credentials.
Natz|Host
So you will guide the 2nd opinion treatments to locals only i suppose
as internationally it will become difficult to guide or how is it?
Pandu|CEO
if you require treatment, that can be gotten locally but the diagnosis can be done internationally. Kilt token curated attester model. a Token Curated Attester is like a DAO. but it’s a permission DAO based on skills
so if you are a doctor or a clinic, you can certify other doctors
certification is based on their speciality etc
the Token Curated Attester will attest to them it acts like a DAO
wait let me send an article
https://medium.com/kilt-protocol/rethinking-tcrs-kilts-concept-of-the-token-curated-attester-tca-acc7a5974dbe
basically, once you are attested by the TCA, people don’t need to see your ID again. they just need to see the attestation of it means you can be an anonymous doctor, but everyone knows you’re an ophthalmologist for example
so you can diagnose eye-related illnesses
this is just one part of Debio btw 🙂
the genetics part is actually super cool as well
there is a monetization model for the genetics part right
we monetize but we keep the users anonymous
how do we do it?
first, no KYC enters the system. second, the data is aggregated. which is actually better for genetic data, since aggregated data creates a lot more analytics results. so that aggregation of data is connected to the Ocean Protocol’s marketplace
and on that marketplace’s side, there is a data token that corresponds with the dataset. if you buy a whole data token, you basically buy access to the data
but — and this is very important — you cannot DOWNLOAD the data
you send in algorithms to examine the data
and query it.
i can send in:
- search for all Asian women
- search for incident of gene ABC in this set
- return percentage of individuals.
it’s an infra solution to be honest tailored to biomedical data.
Natz|Host
Do you intend to store DNA records also in the chain ?
and what if it gets hacked — is there any security checks done on that aspect ?
Pandu|CEO
As you can see we use IPFS but IPFS is a public network right
so we encrypt the data first with the user’s public key means that the user is the only person who can decrypt their genome just basic asymmetric encryption, right and that connects the person in a provable day to any data we put there imagine using it for vaccine proving “i have been vaccinated”
but you don’t need to show your name that eliminates the need for centralized vaccine passports.
Jonty|Host
What is the competitive advantage of DeBio Network? Who are your competitors and what makes you different from others?
Pandu|CEO
So first of all, I don’t think we are competing with the other crypto projects
we are not even competing with the other blockchain bioinformatics projects
we are competing primarily with the mainstream labs in terms of concept and positioning the bioinformatics industry is over 10 billion dollars
that’s not even taking into account the massive growth of the biomedical industry after the pandemic hit that money is not coming from just the money you put in to do personal genetic testing only that is coming from these companies reutilizing and using your genes and data for research
there is an example I usually give in these cases — Henrietta Lacks
or “HeLa Cells”
she died many years ago of cancer, and her cells kept on dividing after death
she was turned into a cell line (basically a product that is just eternally dividing cells) these cells were monetized over and over again without her consent her family never received the benefits, the profits, while her cells were used to make a ton of drugs until 1980, when the family sued
imagine that, but your medical and genomic data. the set of data that is used for computer-aided drug design and many other things anyway, we are competing with *centralized* genetic and biomedical companies.
23andme
ancestry.org
and we are calling on smaller labs, DIY labs, to join us on our platform
the idea is to get smaller labs to band together, work together, and compete against the large mega labs
this is why we are part of diylabs.org
https://sphere.diybio.org/networks/degenics/
in terms of competitive advantage against these traditional infrastructures:
- we have a way to get the value directly to the users, which may mean their genetic testing or biomedical testing can be heavily discounted (via our data staking method)
- we accept crypto (legally btw — our holding company DAOGenics, Ltd., is set up in Singapore and it is quite friendly for crypto transactions here)
- we are activating many labs, not just one, and labs can work together on our platform to offer joint products (to put it simply, if your lab has analytics capabilities but no genetic sequencer, you can work together with a lab with a genetic sequencer but no analytics capabilities)
- activities such as LP, AMM, staking, indexing, can also happen with our tokens as well
which is something that the traditional labs don’t have
now, i don’t want to mention other blockchain bioinformatics projects, but i would like to mention a common strategy to them: they end up becoming just another lab, with a blockchain securing it.
we don’t want to be one lab. we want to be a myriad of labs, and invite all labs to onboard.
Jonty|Host
Could you please provide some progress on your Roadmap and what results DeBio has achieved so far? And any upcoming plans for DeBio?
Pandu|CEO
Our idea became public in 2018.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARd8EqGfp88
I spoke about it at the Software Architecture Conference
i spoke about it at the Blockchain Economic Forum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GSm0uzC4AM
all 2018 stuff back then no one thought it was possible
we found a way to make it happen, at the end of last year.
the key is not JUST securing and making sovereign the genetic data — the key is making a physical to the digital bridge, to ensure that physical samples turn into digital genome representation in a way that is not just secure, but permissionless. trustless. sovereign.
we started building the app in January, prototyping on Ethereum
we immediately won ETHDenver.com — one of the largest ETH competitions — for UN Sustainable Development Goals bounty and IPFS Identity bounty https://lincolncitizen.com/decentralized-bio-networks-degenics-wins-at-ethdenver-with-an-anonymous-at-home-dna-testing-platform/
then we moved over to Substrate — took us two months
https://belmontstar.com/debio-network-announces-move-to-substrate-and-will-be-the-first-app-chain-to-go-live-on-octopus-network-testnet/
as you can see there we are on Substrate but not on Octopus or Kusama
we are on the Octopus Network oct.network
in parallel to winning ethdenver, we partnered with kilt.io
they are a key partner for us, to onboard labs and medical professionals in a safe way that is still decentralized as mentioned before, after being on Substrate, we were the very first Appchain on the Octopus Network testnet
which is a Substrate relay chain on the NEAR protocol
Octopus has the capability to right-size your security as an app chain
unlike other multichain solutions, we have finished our Seed round in May with 250k we are currently raising strategic
we are going to IDO skyward. finance — with the help of Octopus Network
this is still planned for the next two months
KILT development follows, ensuring lab consortium governance is set up, and we plan to launch mainnet in the Octopus by October 2021.
After stabilization of the network, we will develop the data tokens concept further to increase data granularity, expand market and partnerships further, and explore B2B implementations of our platform.
a lot of activities follow next year — we are in talks with data providers and clinics, as well as labs. there is an exciting future for DeBio and I would like you guys to follow our activities at blog.debio.network in that blog there are really cool articles about our progress and our vision, as well as explaining our tech.
TWITTER ROUND
Can you please share a few major milestones that your project has achieved during its development process? I want to know about your strategic investors and well-known partners, as well as the value they bring to the your project ecosystem.
Pandu|CEO
Milestones
(Mentioned above)
Strategic Investors and Well Known Partners we have several investors that we can name:
- LCG.VC
- Elevate Community Ventures
the rest are actually investors we can’t currently name, but the source of funds is massively decentralized — we had a 50k cap on contributions per person / institution. we have really really strong partners:
- Kilt Protocol
- Octopus Network
- blocksphere.id
- and we are a member of DIYBio.org
As I know that Decentralized Bio is the first appchain to launch on Octopus Network testnet and in process of on-boarding laboratories. Could you tell me more about this relationship and how does Decentralized Bio in the Octopus Protocol ecosystem ?
Pandu|CEO
First of all there is a typo in the last part of the question 😄
you got it right the first time, it’s Octopus Network, not Octopus Protocol
but anyway. There are two aspect to this question: one is why didn’t we just build a dapp? why did we go ahead and make an app chain? second is, why Octopus instead of the other multichain infra projects
there is a very clear answer to this based on my years of experience in IT
Current Web3 apps run on a general-purpose road that only allows customization at the level of the smart contract and assumes that the blockchain is a general-purpose computer. that’s what you do when you create a dApp you create a thin layer at the top, the app logic, without doing anything to runtime, consensus, and governance think of it as a computer that is forced to run everything from transactions to NFTs. ok, so that’s why we went to substrate. rather than a dApp, we create an Appchain — application-specific blockchain optimized for the project’s needs. now the Substrate ecosystem has a lot of promise, but tbh Polkadot and Kusama are very very highly-priced. This is where the Octopus Network comes in. It is built on NEAR, which is highly performance-driven and very developer-friendly. Octopus basically uses smart contracts on NEAR to create validators, and since NEAR has sharding capabilities that make it very high in possible tps, it means Oct can have unlimited app chains unlike Polkadot and Kusama, which have limited app chains and a ton of projects fighting for slots
additionally, from the security model, OCT has Leased PoS — not like other multi chains, you can have the exact security your app chain needs, according to your needs at that stage in your development. Hence the cost barrier is lower by about 100x.
but it’s not just because it’s cheap — it is also because of its access to liquidity that we chose Octopus project tokens can be bridged to NEAR — which means DBIO can access DeFi applications on NEAR
you would be able to do staking, LP, etc, on the NEAR protocol
also, ETH can be bridged via ethereum.bridgetonear.org
also — if DBIO one day wants to move from Octopus and on to Kusama or Polkadot, that is actually very possible. Appchains can disconnect at any time and move over to DOT/Sama or be independent finally, the state of the app chain is always backed up so in case of a hostile takeover (like what happened in the steem.it case) the community can actually fork from an old version and just run the app chain as a community-owned app chain.
ok, these features are cool
Octopus is a lot more flexible, right-sized, and more economic
and we are also going to have some amazing news about our collaboration really soon. wait for that news in our Telegram group 🙂
COMMUNITY ROUND
Nisansala
Can you expand our knowledge about Your Roadmap this year and the future and any Updates on your Research and development progress?
Pandu|CEO
I think I already reviewed the entire timeline for this year, but I will answer you for next year and our multi-year plan:
- make the data tokens more granular while collaborating with data users in a B2B fashion — data users can be pharma companies, research labs, universities, etc
- implement local communities for DeBio physical testing
- initialize global collaborations between labs.
Jastin 45
Whats the total supply of the token ? Could you share a detailed tokenomics of mainnet token’s supply distribution?
Pandu|CEO
here is the overview of the tokenomics:
we are currently in the Strategic Round.
Adhi
Is octopus network a independent blockchain or a linked blockchain 🤔🤔
Pandu|CEO
Octopus Network acts as a relay chain on top of the NEAR Protocol layer 1
here is a more detailed description for the technically minded additionally, there are IBC bridges that bridge between the app chains, like so:
means that there is massive interoperability here
between app chains, to and from the Polkadot ecosystem, to Ethereum
bridging works to bring liquidity in and out.
hoàng vai
Can we use the services for means of payment in a company, these tools really protect the integrated security and data of people without any risk ?
Pandu|CEO
yes, you can use it for B2B services as well. since we don’t collect the KYC, the medical data is never linked to the KYC. that means there is no risk of leaks.
Rebecca
COVID 19 has slowed down many economies around the world but as a crypto business, does it affect you negatively or positively? Are you still on track to achieve your goals or are you planning a new development?
Pandu|CEO
sad about the pandemic, and it has affected many people. but it has affected DeBio positively. my team has always been working from home
so there is very little change and our product actually solves a lot of pandemic problems.
Brian
When will the project take place Pre-sale? Where will it be held? If it’s possible then Please Share me Pre-sale link
Pandu|CEO
short answer: go to debio.network click on “Invest” in the menu bar.
Tttt
How can Holder be benefitted from your project as many people are looking for short term benefits and quick gains , will you have staking and farming available for passive income?
Pandu|CEO
we have a huge incentive for those who use the biomedical services on our platform: data staking gives you DBIO regularly additionally, due to octopus we have access to the NEAR ecosystem, where DBIO can be used for regular staking, LP, and farming.
Dragon 0055
I think NFT is really popular topic for now, what is your opinion regarding NFT?
Pandu|CEO
think about this concept: Mint Your Own Genome. imagine having the capability to prove on the blockchain that a genome is yours, without having to relinquish your privacy. imagine owning that genome, and locking the details of that genome in an encrypted part of the NFT unlockable. We are researching this, for next year.
Petni
Without having any working marketing and capital infusion: the project dies… Can you assure us users that you have adequate marketing power and capital to push this project to the top project?
Pandu|CEO
Octopus is already supporting us with a lot of its marketing muscle.
We are already featured in the Polkadotters blog, as well as a ton of other publications. go to debio.network and seek out the Media page. That page is actually several pages long.
The AMA recorded many great questions from the Crypto Players India community, as well as meticulous answers from our guest Pandu Sastrowardoyo from DeBio.Network. AMA Concluded at 7 pm IST.
